Post by safaiax on Dec 21, 2008 19:03:08 GMT -5
"Ah, there we go." Jayda said. "Now the specifics come out." She half grinned. "Homosexuality--in God's eyes--is sin. Plain and simple."
"Ha, I knew it!" He exclaimed, as if he'd just proven a point.
"Hold on now!" Jayda put up her hands to quiet him. "People in our culture treat it like it's a separate sin, or like it's extra evil." She paused for a second. "They condemn homosexuals, and yet they don't condemn liars, idolaters, blasphemers...only homosexuals...and that's not right. Everyone sins, and yet only those who choose to live out their sin are looked down at. Probably because it goes against 'tradition', or whatever. It doesn't make sense, because if they're going to condemn one kind of sinful person, they should condemn all sinful people, including themselves! Instead of condemning, though, they should love, no matter who it is they must love, or what they've done.
"But, you know...there's something I should tell you while we're on this topic. I told you that in my early years of high school, I considered myself bi. One reason I did this was because I thought if you had a sexual thought, or even a desire towards someone of the same gender, that makes you bi. But, later I found out that that's wrong. Those kinds of thoughts are one of the effects of sin on us humans. See, when sin came into the world, it messed up every single part of life, including sexuality. I realized that in reality, when you have a sexual desire towards someone of the same gender, it's not sinful. It's called temptation, and only when you act on that temptation does it become sin. But, even if you have, God can still forgive you."
Freddy's hair hung low over his eyes as he stared at the floor--or maybe the coffee table; I couldn't tell. Regardless, his eyes seemed to refuse to meet Jayda's. "Nah. God can't forgive me. I've done too many bad things in my life."
"Oh yes He can. He's infinite! He has infinite love and infinite forgiveness! He can forgive you no matter how many sins you've committed. It's just a matter of you making that choice and asking Him to forgive you. And does He want you to keep on sinning? Of course not. He's there to help you stop, though. He loves you more than any of us could imagine!"
He shrugged as he continued to stare at the floor.
"You know..." I started to say after a few seconds of silence. "That's kind of funny. My girlfriend believes God will forgive you if your good deeds out weight your bad because He's loving...so pretty much that you just have to be good to get to heaven. And yet, you say God can forgive you no matter how many bad things you've done."
"That's interesting. I've heard that a million times. Does your girlfriend claim to be Christian?"
"I dunno. I think so."
"She needs to brush up on her Bible then. Let me give you an analogy. Imagine you just committed a crime--say...murder--and you get caught and taken to court. Your fine is so big that you can't pay it, so you're punishment is life in prison. But suddenly, the judge comes down and hands you a check for the exact amount of money you need to pay the fine. Here's an opportunity for you to go free because your fine can be paid by the judge himself! And you desperately want to be free, so you say to the judge 'Hey, you know what? I think you should let me go because on my way to the courtroom, I helped an old lady cross the street, gave food to a homeless guy, and then I washed your car. I've done more good things than bad, so clearly I deserve to be free. And besides, you're a good and loving judge, right?'
"Then the judge replies 'You still committed the crime, though, and no amount of good deeds will change that. Justice must be served, and since you can't pay the fine, you have two choices: Life in prison, or accept my payment. By the way, I am just as well as loving, but if I wasn't loving, I would not have offered to pay the fine for your own crime.' And that's how it is with God. See how ridiculous it is to think you can get to heaven through your own works?"
"Good analogy, Jayda." Angie said as soon as she finished. "And Aaron, I don't know if your girlfriend believes in 'faith plus works equals heaven', but many people do, and that's not biblical either. That's what the Mormons believe, and that's a core difference between Mormonism and biblical Christianity. You can't rely on yourself at all to get to heaven. We're saved by grace through faith alone in Christ alone; says that in numerous places in the Bible. The only thing you can rely on is the work of Jesus Christ, because He's the only one that could pay for our sins. And besides, it's a gift from God. If you had to work for it even the least bit, it wouldn't be a gift.”
"Hmm...that makes sense."
"Hey Angie," Jared spoke up. "Sorry to change the subject, but I thought Mormonism and Christianity are pretty much the same thing. Aren't they?"
"That's what I thought for a while, too," she replied. "After my Grandma passed away, I started getting into Mormonism some, and just about converted, too, but later I found out what Mormonism really is. I've done extensive research on this, and I've found that it's nothing like Christianity! We don't even believe in the same God. I'd like to say that Mormonism is just a denomination of Christianity, but it's not. There are far too many differences between even the basics. So yeah...it's a whole other internet research project if it interests you."
"Eh, I was just wondering, that's all."
"Oh."
Isaac spoke up this time. "I have a question. Why does Christianity have so many different contradicting beliefs within itself? Why are there so many denominations?"
"There are a couple reasons," Jayda replied. "For one thing, different people interpret the Bible differently. Remember when we said it's best to read the Bible from a Jewish mindset? Well a result of not doing that is coming up with different interpretations. Some people even tend to build an entire doctrine on one verse, without reading it in context and understanding what it really means. So that will result in a different belief. But, most of the differences between each denomination aren't even that big. Like some differences have to do with baptism or how the church government is set up, or whether women should where skirts or not. Just little things like that. They aren't even close to being part of the basics. The basics revolve around Christ, His deity, perfection, etc, His death and bodily resurrection, and also about salvation--that you are saved not by works but by grace through faith alone in Christ alone. As long as they accept the core beliefs, they're Christian, but if they stray from the basic beliefs--if they reject them--then they're obviously not Christian, even if they may look like it on the outside. I've noticed that a core difference between Christianity and every other religion of the world is that they all try to 'deify' mankind, and "de-deify" Christ."
"Oh. Thanks."
"Yep."
There was a silence for a minute as Freddy looked at his watch, I shifted in my chair, and Jayda took a sip of her water.
"Listen guys," Angie finally began. "We could go on talking for hours on end if Freddy didn't have to go soon. The thing I just want you to get is the Gospel, though. You don't have to believe me if you don't want, but at least think about it. Do more research and see if what we tell you is true. If not, you can ignore us and label us as religious freaks. But...if we are right...you guys are in trouble. I can't even emphasize enough on how important this is. Lemme ask you something...how long are you expecting to live? Fifty more years...? Sixty...? Seventy...? Isn't it possible that you could die next week, though? You guys know how sudden life can slip away. It always happens when you're least expecting it too. It's always a surprise--something that you have no control over...Well, what if it does happen when you're least expecting it. Once it happens, there's no turning back. No second chances. By the way, if what we say is true, and the Bible is correct, especially about all of it's prophecies, then Jesus is going to be coming back soon. It could be in two hundred years, or even within twenty years. The Bible talks about a tribulation that's going to happen and it's going to be throughout the whole world. There's some really hard times coming really soon. God is going to judge the world, but before that, Jesus will be coming back to get His Church--that is--the global body of Christians--the true Christians. And I don't know if that's going to happen before the tribulation, or during it, but it's going to happen, I can assure you of that. And either that's going to happen, or you're going to die first, but either way, you will have no chance to turn back and try again. God has given us this life to make that choice we've been talking about."
"Oh, and remember that quote I told you about before?" Jayda added. "The one about God's love? Let me finish it for you. 'God's love is of such a character that it's able to show and demonstrate love towards the object of His wrath. It's as if with one hand, God is holding back His justice against this world, and with the other, He's pleading for men to come. But, one day both hands will drop.'
"And drop they will, whether we like it or not. You know all of the injustices that have happened in this world? They will be punished. Right now, God is being merciful to us and letting us live this life so we can make the choice, but let me just warn you now...if you're not for God, you're against Him. That's what He says. You don't have to like it, but that's what He says in the Bible. Pretty scary thought, huh?"
"Mhm..." Angie said as if to agree. "And, look, we're not trying to scare you, only warn you. We're not trying to make you paranoid about death, but instead, get you searching for answers before it's too late. Please consider these things...Is it not time to stop putting it off? Isn't it now time to start looking into it so that you can make an informed choice? Or would you rather wait until you breathe your last breath to find out? By then it will be too late. Your time will have run out. Your ignorance will either cause your gain for an eternity...or your loss. If you're wrong, you're going to have to pay for that wrongness for ever. No more chances. Not even one."
I sighed at Angie's words. Freddy looked at his watch. "I need to go. Sorry." He said, interrupting the brief silence.
"Bye."
"See ya."
"Bye."
"Later."
"Bye Freddy. Talk to you later?" Angie smiled
He hesitated before answering as he pushed himself up out of the easy chair. "Yeah...talk to you later." He smiled back, and then left.
It was nearly 5:00p.m now and we heard Angie's Mom working in the kitchen, starting on supper. We decided it was time for us to leave, but not without promising that we would definitely keep in touch now that she was allowed to hang out with us again.
As we went out into the cool, summer air, I thought about what we talked about. Angie and Jayda sure gave us a lot to think about...could they be right? Or are they really as crazy as they sound? I don’t know...maybe a little research won't hurt. Might as well. That will be on my list of things to do before I leave to move in with Jared and Isaac. Number one: get license--number two: quit job--number three: Find the truth (before life gets busier!)
Somehow my feet managed to step one after another and drag themselves the whole two minutes home, as my mind wandered off into a dreary, monotonous daze. If god is so cruel and unmerciful, why would Angie and Jayda say he's the exact opposite...maybe I have the wrong god...but how could a god like the one they explained love a guy like me...if he's real, he should have struck me dead long ago...is he really that loving that he could love a wretch like me? And how could he have allowed Dad to die...I don't know. Maybe it's my perception that's off...maybe that was just one piece of the big puzzle of life. Maybe I shouldn't have reacted as I did. Maybe I need to wake up and smell the roses. Maybe god can see everything from above, and he knows what's going on. Maybe he had a reason for allowing it to happen, and I just don't get it yet. Maybe if I would have gone to him instead of away from him, he would have let me know...maybe...just maybe...
I wanted to believe what Angie and Jayda told us, but it seemed more complex than a mere simple belief. The question expanded in my mind the longer I lived life, and now, it was at its peak: If God is all-powerful, loving, and just, why would He allow suffering? In my earlier years, I had wondered why He would allow people like me to suffer in the sort of way that I have. But, now that that question has been answered--it's about the choices of other people--I realized it went deeper. What about things that are not caused by humans, such as natural disasters or birth defects? After all, if God is truly all powerful and loving, why would He not wipe out things like that? I realized that the answer went deeper, just as the question. Yes, suffering happens, but when you
see life from a birds eye view, you see that God is in charge, and even though He allows suffering in ways that appear meaningless to us, He can and does use it in a number of positive ways. He can make good come out of any bad situation. All you have to do is trust Him to make it all work out in the long run, which I suspected He could do if He's all-powerful. Another thing I realized was this: if that doctor hadn't cut off my leg, and if my mother had not put me up for adoption, I never would have known the amazing, unconditional love of my foster parents. That thought made me wonder; if we humans never suffered in one way or another, would we ever know the unconditional love of this God that Angie and Jayda told us about? Would we ever see it and be able to know for a fact that this God is really the God who He claims to be?
I didn't have time to cry, because after I got home, it was dinner, then work. Finally, after work, I went to my room and let loose. Half of me wanted to stay away from this god that I would normally refuse to believe in, because it always reminded me of Dad. But the other half...that was a different story. I felt like I was being forced to make a choice that I didn't want to make. In the past, it was always a 'do I want to believe it?' But now, it's a 'do I want to accept it?' I knew something had to change. I had already had a taste of my purpose in life being shattered, and no one could promise that it wouldn't happen again. I longed for a purpose that I could stand firm on--one that would never drift away. Yes, there definitely needed to be a change in life. Something needed to happen. Angie was right; time to start looking into this god thing--even this truth thing--or dare I say it, this Bible thing--so that my choice can be informed...one based on solid evidence and reason. Time for me to stop putting it off. I had no way of knowing when that moment would come that I would take my last breath--unexpectedly--when my life would shatter for good.
"Ha, I knew it!" He exclaimed, as if he'd just proven a point.
"Hold on now!" Jayda put up her hands to quiet him. "People in our culture treat it like it's a separate sin, or like it's extra evil." She paused for a second. "They condemn homosexuals, and yet they don't condemn liars, idolaters, blasphemers...only homosexuals...and that's not right. Everyone sins, and yet only those who choose to live out their sin are looked down at. Probably because it goes against 'tradition', or whatever. It doesn't make sense, because if they're going to condemn one kind of sinful person, they should condemn all sinful people, including themselves! Instead of condemning, though, they should love, no matter who it is they must love, or what they've done.
"But, you know...there's something I should tell you while we're on this topic. I told you that in my early years of high school, I considered myself bi. One reason I did this was because I thought if you had a sexual thought, or even a desire towards someone of the same gender, that makes you bi. But, later I found out that that's wrong. Those kinds of thoughts are one of the effects of sin on us humans. See, when sin came into the world, it messed up every single part of life, including sexuality. I realized that in reality, when you have a sexual desire towards someone of the same gender, it's not sinful. It's called temptation, and only when you act on that temptation does it become sin. But, even if you have, God can still forgive you."
Freddy's hair hung low over his eyes as he stared at the floor--or maybe the coffee table; I couldn't tell. Regardless, his eyes seemed to refuse to meet Jayda's. "Nah. God can't forgive me. I've done too many bad things in my life."
"Oh yes He can. He's infinite! He has infinite love and infinite forgiveness! He can forgive you no matter how many sins you've committed. It's just a matter of you making that choice and asking Him to forgive you. And does He want you to keep on sinning? Of course not. He's there to help you stop, though. He loves you more than any of us could imagine!"
He shrugged as he continued to stare at the floor.
"You know..." I started to say after a few seconds of silence. "That's kind of funny. My girlfriend believes God will forgive you if your good deeds out weight your bad because He's loving...so pretty much that you just have to be good to get to heaven. And yet, you say God can forgive you no matter how many bad things you've done."
"That's interesting. I've heard that a million times. Does your girlfriend claim to be Christian?"
"I dunno. I think so."
"She needs to brush up on her Bible then. Let me give you an analogy. Imagine you just committed a crime--say...murder--and you get caught and taken to court. Your fine is so big that you can't pay it, so you're punishment is life in prison. But suddenly, the judge comes down and hands you a check for the exact amount of money you need to pay the fine. Here's an opportunity for you to go free because your fine can be paid by the judge himself! And you desperately want to be free, so you say to the judge 'Hey, you know what? I think you should let me go because on my way to the courtroom, I helped an old lady cross the street, gave food to a homeless guy, and then I washed your car. I've done more good things than bad, so clearly I deserve to be free. And besides, you're a good and loving judge, right?'
"Then the judge replies 'You still committed the crime, though, and no amount of good deeds will change that. Justice must be served, and since you can't pay the fine, you have two choices: Life in prison, or accept my payment. By the way, I am just as well as loving, but if I wasn't loving, I would not have offered to pay the fine for your own crime.' And that's how it is with God. See how ridiculous it is to think you can get to heaven through your own works?"
"Good analogy, Jayda." Angie said as soon as she finished. "And Aaron, I don't know if your girlfriend believes in 'faith plus works equals heaven', but many people do, and that's not biblical either. That's what the Mormons believe, and that's a core difference between Mormonism and biblical Christianity. You can't rely on yourself at all to get to heaven. We're saved by grace through faith alone in Christ alone; says that in numerous places in the Bible. The only thing you can rely on is the work of Jesus Christ, because He's the only one that could pay for our sins. And besides, it's a gift from God. If you had to work for it even the least bit, it wouldn't be a gift.”
"Hmm...that makes sense."
"Hey Angie," Jared spoke up. "Sorry to change the subject, but I thought Mormonism and Christianity are pretty much the same thing. Aren't they?"
"That's what I thought for a while, too," she replied. "After my Grandma passed away, I started getting into Mormonism some, and just about converted, too, but later I found out what Mormonism really is. I've done extensive research on this, and I've found that it's nothing like Christianity! We don't even believe in the same God. I'd like to say that Mormonism is just a denomination of Christianity, but it's not. There are far too many differences between even the basics. So yeah...it's a whole other internet research project if it interests you."
"Eh, I was just wondering, that's all."
"Oh."
Isaac spoke up this time. "I have a question. Why does Christianity have so many different contradicting beliefs within itself? Why are there so many denominations?"
"There are a couple reasons," Jayda replied. "For one thing, different people interpret the Bible differently. Remember when we said it's best to read the Bible from a Jewish mindset? Well a result of not doing that is coming up with different interpretations. Some people even tend to build an entire doctrine on one verse, without reading it in context and understanding what it really means. So that will result in a different belief. But, most of the differences between each denomination aren't even that big. Like some differences have to do with baptism or how the church government is set up, or whether women should where skirts or not. Just little things like that. They aren't even close to being part of the basics. The basics revolve around Christ, His deity, perfection, etc, His death and bodily resurrection, and also about salvation--that you are saved not by works but by grace through faith alone in Christ alone. As long as they accept the core beliefs, they're Christian, but if they stray from the basic beliefs--if they reject them--then they're obviously not Christian, even if they may look like it on the outside. I've noticed that a core difference between Christianity and every other religion of the world is that they all try to 'deify' mankind, and "de-deify" Christ."
"Oh. Thanks."
"Yep."
There was a silence for a minute as Freddy looked at his watch, I shifted in my chair, and Jayda took a sip of her water.
"Listen guys," Angie finally began. "We could go on talking for hours on end if Freddy didn't have to go soon. The thing I just want you to get is the Gospel, though. You don't have to believe me if you don't want, but at least think about it. Do more research and see if what we tell you is true. If not, you can ignore us and label us as religious freaks. But...if we are right...you guys are in trouble. I can't even emphasize enough on how important this is. Lemme ask you something...how long are you expecting to live? Fifty more years...? Sixty...? Seventy...? Isn't it possible that you could die next week, though? You guys know how sudden life can slip away. It always happens when you're least expecting it too. It's always a surprise--something that you have no control over...Well, what if it does happen when you're least expecting it. Once it happens, there's no turning back. No second chances. By the way, if what we say is true, and the Bible is correct, especially about all of it's prophecies, then Jesus is going to be coming back soon. It could be in two hundred years, or even within twenty years. The Bible talks about a tribulation that's going to happen and it's going to be throughout the whole world. There's some really hard times coming really soon. God is going to judge the world, but before that, Jesus will be coming back to get His Church--that is--the global body of Christians--the true Christians. And I don't know if that's going to happen before the tribulation, or during it, but it's going to happen, I can assure you of that. And either that's going to happen, or you're going to die first, but either way, you will have no chance to turn back and try again. God has given us this life to make that choice we've been talking about."
"Oh, and remember that quote I told you about before?" Jayda added. "The one about God's love? Let me finish it for you. 'God's love is of such a character that it's able to show and demonstrate love towards the object of His wrath. It's as if with one hand, God is holding back His justice against this world, and with the other, He's pleading for men to come. But, one day both hands will drop.'
"And drop they will, whether we like it or not. You know all of the injustices that have happened in this world? They will be punished. Right now, God is being merciful to us and letting us live this life so we can make the choice, but let me just warn you now...if you're not for God, you're against Him. That's what He says. You don't have to like it, but that's what He says in the Bible. Pretty scary thought, huh?"
"Mhm..." Angie said as if to agree. "And, look, we're not trying to scare you, only warn you. We're not trying to make you paranoid about death, but instead, get you searching for answers before it's too late. Please consider these things...Is it not time to stop putting it off? Isn't it now time to start looking into it so that you can make an informed choice? Or would you rather wait until you breathe your last breath to find out? By then it will be too late. Your time will have run out. Your ignorance will either cause your gain for an eternity...or your loss. If you're wrong, you're going to have to pay for that wrongness for ever. No more chances. Not even one."
I sighed at Angie's words. Freddy looked at his watch. "I need to go. Sorry." He said, interrupting the brief silence.
"Bye."
"See ya."
"Bye."
"Later."
"Bye Freddy. Talk to you later?" Angie smiled
He hesitated before answering as he pushed himself up out of the easy chair. "Yeah...talk to you later." He smiled back, and then left.
It was nearly 5:00p.m now and we heard Angie's Mom working in the kitchen, starting on supper. We decided it was time for us to leave, but not without promising that we would definitely keep in touch now that she was allowed to hang out with us again.
As we went out into the cool, summer air, I thought about what we talked about. Angie and Jayda sure gave us a lot to think about...could they be right? Or are they really as crazy as they sound? I don’t know...maybe a little research won't hurt. Might as well. That will be on my list of things to do before I leave to move in with Jared and Isaac. Number one: get license--number two: quit job--number three: Find the truth (before life gets busier!)
(Freddy)
Somehow my feet managed to step one after another and drag themselves the whole two minutes home, as my mind wandered off into a dreary, monotonous daze. If god is so cruel and unmerciful, why would Angie and Jayda say he's the exact opposite...maybe I have the wrong god...but how could a god like the one they explained love a guy like me...if he's real, he should have struck me dead long ago...is he really that loving that he could love a wretch like me? And how could he have allowed Dad to die...I don't know. Maybe it's my perception that's off...maybe that was just one piece of the big puzzle of life. Maybe I shouldn't have reacted as I did. Maybe I need to wake up and smell the roses. Maybe god can see everything from above, and he knows what's going on. Maybe he had a reason for allowing it to happen, and I just don't get it yet. Maybe if I would have gone to him instead of away from him, he would have let me know...maybe...just maybe...
(Isaac)
I wanted to believe what Angie and Jayda told us, but it seemed more complex than a mere simple belief. The question expanded in my mind the longer I lived life, and now, it was at its peak: If God is all-powerful, loving, and just, why would He allow suffering? In my earlier years, I had wondered why He would allow people like me to suffer in the sort of way that I have. But, now that that question has been answered--it's about the choices of other people--I realized it went deeper. What about things that are not caused by humans, such as natural disasters or birth defects? After all, if God is truly all powerful and loving, why would He not wipe out things like that? I realized that the answer went deeper, just as the question. Yes, suffering happens, but when you
see life from a birds eye view, you see that God is in charge, and even though He allows suffering in ways that appear meaningless to us, He can and does use it in a number of positive ways. He can make good come out of any bad situation. All you have to do is trust Him to make it all work out in the long run, which I suspected He could do if He's all-powerful. Another thing I realized was this: if that doctor hadn't cut off my leg, and if my mother had not put me up for adoption, I never would have known the amazing, unconditional love of my foster parents. That thought made me wonder; if we humans never suffered in one way or another, would we ever know the unconditional love of this God that Angie and Jayda told us about? Would we ever see it and be able to know for a fact that this God is really the God who He claims to be?
(Jared)
I didn't have time to cry, because after I got home, it was dinner, then work. Finally, after work, I went to my room and let loose. Half of me wanted to stay away from this god that I would normally refuse to believe in, because it always reminded me of Dad. But the other half...that was a different story. I felt like I was being forced to make a choice that I didn't want to make. In the past, it was always a 'do I want to believe it?' But now, it's a 'do I want to accept it?' I knew something had to change. I had already had a taste of my purpose in life being shattered, and no one could promise that it wouldn't happen again. I longed for a purpose that I could stand firm on--one that would never drift away. Yes, there definitely needed to be a change in life. Something needed to happen. Angie was right; time to start looking into this god thing--even this truth thing--or dare I say it, this Bible thing--so that my choice can be informed...one based on solid evidence and reason. Time for me to stop putting it off. I had no way of knowing when that moment would come that I would take my last breath--unexpectedly--when my life would shatter for good.